MA Weapons

[noobas]

I think torturing tools have a fairly low max dmg, like 20-142(100) or something?

Whereas the max dmg AND min dmg on hazangerine bear claws is more ie 40-340 I think

Obviously, for a MA with high(er) crit compared to other professions will get the largest gains with high max dmg and high crit weapons.

I'd stick with the two claws, but I'd highly recommend testing, I mean, really, testing stuff out is half the fun, ODing the team of oddballs at S10 is the other half

[Alphacenta]

QL150 Hazangerine Claw: 31-239 (234) - Fire AC
QL150 Torturing Tool: 86-86 (515) - Cold AC

So yeh lower max damage but higher min and critmod.

[noobas]

definitly worth testing.... try it in Rulz's max dmg calculator?

is TT prof lockeD?

[Alphacenta]

definitly worth testing.... try it in Rulz's max dmg calculator?

is TT prof lockeD?

Yup its proflocked to MA.

And I suck with damage calculations as I usually don't give a rats ass about pvm damage ^^ so someone else is gonna have to do that for me.

[Rulzern]

It's really hard to calculate damage on weapons in non-min damage situations, since the ACs of mobs change a lot from mob to mob. It's pretty easy to calculate it in min-damage situations though.

If you're 1/1 with 50% crit and 1400 MA skill (dunno if that's realistic numbers for an MA though):

30 attacks per minute, half of them crit:

503*15 + (136+525*(1+1080/400))*15 = 7545 + 36685.5 = 44230.5

40 attacks per minute, half of them crit, 14 hits with fist, 14 with QL150 TT, 14 hits with Hazangerine Claw:

503*7 + 2078.5*7 + 301*7 + 2103.5*7 + 108.5*7 + 972.5*7 = 42469

So, the TT+Claw+MA option seems to lose out here, but there are some things that you need to keep in mind:

You will get 4/3rds more out of all the add damage gear you have.
You will have procs running 4/3rds more.

For the multi-wielding combo to OD fists in a min-damage situation, you need 176 add damage, you should have more than that without even trying. But the question here becomes, how much ACs do the mobs in sec10 have?

Also, the more MA skill you have, the better pure fists will look here, and the more add damage, the better the multi-wield will look, and the lower the ACs are, the better fists will look (fists will do a base crit of 1085 with 0 ACs, the claw will do a base of 473, and the TT will still do a base of 601, and it takes more ACs to bring the fists down to min damage than the claws, ~15k ACs for fists vs. ~7k for claws, and 0 ACs for TTs).

Now _this_ is where your method of runnigng DD shines noobas.

EDIT: Oh, I forgot to mention, TT+Fists will OD pure fists in a min damage situation, even without add damage, atleast with 50% crit. But really, more numbers are needed to make these calculations close to correct.

[Alphacenta]

Wth so what rulzie is saying:

Fists + TT > all
Claw*2 > TT+Claw
Fists > Claws

?

[Rulzern]

I'm saying that in min damage situations, with 1400 MA skill, with 0 add damage, if you're 1/1, with 50% crit chance, if my calculations are correct, fist + TT will be the best option.

If you really want to, I can set up some graphs to illustrate the point.

[noobas]

no MA is ever 1-1

MA is like 1.5-1.5 at best, 1-1 with flurry, 1-1 at full agg.

but, with 2100 phys init, I'm about 1.5-1.5 at full def, for some reason at full def MA skill attacks are maxed at about 1.5-1.5

We're sort of nerfed that way, which is why adding more weapons to the mix helps.

The main point I was tryin to make, alpha, is this:

1. 3 attack bars = 33% more proc chances/min
2. 3 attack bars = 33% more chance of landing drain
3. 3 attack bars = 33% more chances for crit /min
4. 3 attack bars = using flurry = like 50% more chances for everything
5. 3 attack bars = 33% more out of your add dmg.

If you change that to 2 attack bars, like what i do with 1 shen is down to 20% more for all of those (but I don't have the MM to use two weps)

The bottom line is try it, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at the results.

[Rulzern]

Oooh, but if you're 1.5/1.5 with fists, the picture changes dramatically, suddenly almost ANY multi-wield option will be very decent at TL5.

That means that those 30 attacks will take 90 seconds, not 60, skewing the damage numbers dramatically in favour of multi-wielding.

[Alphacenta]

I'm saying that in min damage situations, with 1400 MA skill, with 0 add damage, if you're 1/1, with 50% crit chance, if my calculations are correct, fist + TT will be the best option.

If you really want to, I can set up some graphs to illustrate the point.

Right but those are totally illusional calculations because:

TL5 MA has more than 1400 MA skill
TL5 MA is not 1on1 in full def
TL5 MA always has +damage gear

@Noobas I understand that weapons > no weapons now, but now I need to find out what weapon choice is the best: claw*2, claw, claw+TT, TT.

And Rulzie the multiwielding you're talking about in last post means fists+TT or claw+TT or claw+claw?

[noobas]

alpha, I think rulzie realized what youre saying in a earlier post when he said soemthing like.. O_o not 1-1.. ok.. then heavily skewed to having weeps.

that aside, I agree, so which weps are we talking about here that are goin to have the greatest impact? TT's or the hazangerine bear claw...

Ok heres me 2 cents, again, just cuz I love talkin about it:

for a 150 toon:

1. MA skill will not be 1400+ (as you think it might be) ( I have a 150 twinked keeper, and keepers>>MA for AR, and he has about 1300 I think)
2. if youre 150, youre 150 because you want to farm S10, so youre fighting mobs with low AC's
3. If youre fighting mobs with low AC's youre better off with a weap with high max damage.
4. The answer is 2x hazangerine bearclaws (with highish crit and loads of add dmg.)
4a. The corollary is that you have to increase piercing and MA skill, but only incease piercing enough that you can get a wranlge to put on the claws. Why? because you don' tneed piercing to increase your damage on the claws, only add dmg, and furthermore, none of youre perks check piercing skill. twink add dmg instead of MA skill to get the best result.

Dchest ftw, get best fists of stellar harmony, short term add dmg buffs, and use the fire damage arul sabas. Use the AAO, +dmg research hud, motr and barrow strength (maybe a Igoc) ,use the add dmg proc, and the debilitating strike proc, universal vulnerbility compendium, pred circlet, 2x ring of elemental power (add fire dmg), 400-1000 token board, offensive augmentation device, and aura magnifier, fist of dominator, and spirit focus sleeves.

The because the crit bonus isn't huge on the claws, you can max your add dmg without havign to worry about critting. Youre looking at so much add dmg it'll be comin out your ears. with this setup youre looking at about 48% crit, and 499 add dmg (when procs kick in)

I'd say you're doing about 2500 dmg average hits and 3000 crits with weps, 3400 crits with fist.
but so many attacks ... I'm just estimating on those numbers, but you add a set of CM into the mix and youre looking at 500+ add dmg, anda few more crit based on the AR evade check disparity. That is a lot

With a 225 Wolf MK6 and 1500 AR on my keeper I am hitting many 3000-3300 dmg crits and average hit around 1900 I think. I dan't have any crit equipment, all add dmg, and I OD almost every prof in S10. But I don't have as much add dmg as I listed above.

[Alphacenta]

Lies, MA > keeper for AR imo.

Especially with Moonmist up MA can get like umm 1.8k-2k AR at TL5. The 3k crit thing is kinda meh I expect fists will get much higher crits which is in fact good for your epeen too 8)

Also RBP (which I have on testlive) >> Aura Magnifier amirite?

[noobas]

ya rbp>>> aura magnifier


sec making waffles

[Alphacenta]

sec making waffles

Yummy.

[noobas]

ya I discounted that I hardly use any AR perks on my keeper... mostly use defensive perks.

I think you're probably right though, getting about 1600-1700 AR wouldn't be too hard, and MM on top.

REgardless, I think you're still goign to see higher damage tripled up on weps/attack bars.